About sleeves...

[amethyst73]

So, I have some nice hemmed sleeves to put into my shirt.

The instructions say to match up the dots on the side and to gather the ease (which I can do, even if it is a pain - I assume all this gets easier and faster with practice??).  In addition, I'm supposed to match the center dot with the shoulder seam (easy) and to match the bottom seam of the sleeve with the side seam of the shirt.

The thing is, if I match the bottom seam with the side seam and the side dots with their mates, there's a good 5/8" or so extra material on each side in the sleeve fabric.  I've double-checked the original pattern, and if you check the length of the perimeter from the dot to the edge with the bottom/side seam, there's a greater distance on the sleeve than there is on the shirt.  If I work to match the dots exactly, there's going to be a large-ish excess of fabric  between the dots and the bottom/side seam that will need to be settled somehow. If I work to keep the edges aligned from the seams outward, the dots aren't going to match.

Is this a common problem?  What should one do?  I'm assuming that making sure the edges between the dots and the seam don't get out of whack is more important because I don't want a big nasty  tuck in the sleeve fabric...

(I will also go looking elsewhere on the Internet.)

ETA: I'm supposed to be easestitching just between the outermost dots on the cap, right?  Problem would certainly be solved if I lengthened the easestitching down to the notches, as at least one person does it.

Comments

[onyoukai.livejournal.com]

Yes, it is a common problem: lazy patternmaking.

Commercial patterns commonly have anywhere from 5/8" up to 2 whole inches (!! yes, I've seen it) MORE length on the sleeve cap than the armscye. They then cover their mistake by telling you to solve all your problems with ease-stitching.

But really, there is no damn good reason to have that much ease in a sleeve cap. The excuse I heard in college courses was "you need the extra length so you can easestitch it into a curve so it accommodates the round shape of the shoulder." But it doesn't really accomplish that task. What it DOES do is become a pain in the ass to sew (I mean really, it's hard to impossible to sew it without creating a tuck by accident), and it's an eyesore to look at because the ENTIRE sleeve looks all puffy and crap around the shoulder. And it lets the pattern drafter get away with fudging this stupid symmetrical sleeve shape that doesn't match the shape of a real body, either.

I personally try to eliminate as much of that extra length from the sleeve cap as possible. I will forgive it up to 3/8", because that's trivial - I can easily stretch the armscye a little to accommodate that, and when that's distributed all the way around, it doesn't create any appreciable warping.

Now, there are a couple ways you can approach the problem, and it relates to the circumference of your bicep.

1) If the sleeve bicep is HUGE compared to your arm, you might be able to get away with just shortening the sleeve cap. Lower it a little bit at the shoulder and blend it back into the curve. But the more common fix is...

2) Shorten the sleeve cap and widen the bicep at the same time. (There are tutorials on the Internet about using pattern slashing to spread and change fit.)

To explain some of the mechanics...

A tall sleeve cap is meant to make a shirt/jacket look nice when your arms are down. However, you won't have much range of motion.

A shorter sleeve cap and wider bicep increases your mobility. It won't look as pretty when your arms are down because the pattern is now meant to accommodate your arms being raised. On most people, just shortening the sleeve cap will not change the limited range of motion; the extra bicep width is what makes that work.

[amethyst73.livejournal.com]

Wow! Thanks a TON!

(It also happens that the easestitching is supposed to go from notch to notch, not dot to dot. Idiot, it helps to carefully study the diagrams...)

I saw some of those instructions (I happened across this (http://www.threadsmagazine.com/item/5052/on-fitting-sleeves/page/all), which looked useful on a whole lotta levels, not least of which is how to deal with different sizes of bust and waist). I will see how much fabric I have left and figure out whether I can cut new sleeves according to your suggestions. :D

[onyoukai.livejournal.com]

Here's a fun read to elaborate on the issue:
http://www.fashion-incubator.com/archive/sleeve_cap_ease_is_bogus/

When I first found this article, I felt incredibly vindicated because it proved what I had suspected ever since I first had to put up with easestitching.

[amethyst73.livejournal.com]

That is a tremendously helpful article, thanks!

Once I finish the current shirt (by whatever method) I think I'm going to be spending a lot of time playing with tissue paper and muslin, messing with sleeve cap shapes. :) (Should I acquire a designer's curve, or can I get away with eyeballing it, at least for the moment?)

[onyoukai.livejournal.com]

Curves do make the process of pattern drafting and alteration easier because you'll have smoother lines. I have a collection of various types of curves - some are architect's curves, some are tailoring.

[hoshikage.livejournal.com]

If you don't have enough fabric to cut new sleeves, it may not be *too* bad to basically just push any extra into the ease-gathering at the top - I personally don't mind a bit of puff at the top of the sleeve, so I'd just align the seams and edges and make sure that all the gathering wound up where at least gathering is already "supposed" to be, even if the dots then don't end up matching. But that method does depend on how much you hate sleeve puff. ;)

(Edit: ...yeah, kind of what your edit says, in fact. *smacks forehead at not reading thoroughly enough*)

[amethyst73.livejournal.com]

'Tsawright. (Part of what got me into trouble here was not looking at the directions closely enough!)

Come the end of this project, there will only be, like, three bits of stitching that I won't have redone in some fashion. (I think my sleeve hems are okay, and I expect to be able to do the final shirt bottom hem fine too.)

Unimportant question: In my pattern instructions, it saves the bottom hem of the completed shirt till last. I can see how, if you're a beginner and prone to error (raises hand REALLY high and energetically!) you might want to put off that completion step till absolutely everything else is done, but if you're pretty sure that everything's ok once your side seam is in, is there any reason to delay it? (The shirt is a pullover - no buttons or zipper or anything to open up the front.)

[onyoukai.livejournal.com]

Sewing instructions are like pirate rules: they're really more like guidelines.

I personally prefer to hem the bottom after finishing the torso but before attaching the sleeves, so that the sleeves don't get in the way. My final step is usually attaching the completed sleeves to the completed body.

[amethyst73.livejournal.com]

Makes sense. My sleeves are short, so they're not actually in the way of doing bottom stuff.

I'm very excited - one of my sleeves is in!!! There's, like, two tiny tiny tucks, and mostly it looks pretty nice. (Not enough extra fabric, so I ended up doing the ease thing.)

Total n00b q: Now that I have the first real line of stitching in, the instructions say to "stitch again 1/8" from the first stitching." I assume that that second stitching is out into the seam allowance, not in towards the garment?

[onyoukai.livejournal.com]

I can't say for sure what their intentions are without seeing the instructions and illustrations, but there are a couple things it could mean:

1) A "safety stitch" where you're sewing the seam allowances together, 1/8" away from the main stitchline

2) Topstitching 1/8" away from the seam, catching the seam allowances underneath

The safety stitch approach really doesn't serve any functional purpose that I can think of, except maybe to create a buffer zone for the actual seam as the fabric unravels (thus assuming the person sewing has no serger and does not take any precautions to finish the seam allowances). It wouldn't alleviate any pull or tension from the main stitchline.

I personally prefer topstitching. I like the aesthetic, and it actually does reduce seam tension by distributing it. If you topstitch, you need to press the seam allowances into the body, not into the sleeve.

[amethyst73.livejournal.com]

I'm guessing they mean it for reinforcement, a la pages 6-7 of this (http://ir.library.oregonstate.edu/xmlui/bitstream/handle/1957/24620/ECNO980.pdf?sequence=1).

Topstitching sounds like a fine idea in this case. I'm using a circa 1951 Singer that only does straight stitches, and I don't have a serger. (I am seriously thinking of borrowing or purchasing a newer machine that will do zigzags - I wanna make things with buttons one of these days.) The instructions suggest overcasting, but the finish outside will be so much nicer-looking if I topstitch instead.

Thank you again so much. You've been amazingly helpful and giving of your time, and I can't tell you how much I appreciate it!

[onyoukai.livejournal.com]

Okay yeah, so it's the safety stitch idea. Honestly, I never noticed any kind of tension reinforcement from doing stuff like that. 6_6 So I just don't do it.

Yeah, I do recommend getting a machine with at least a zigzag stitch. You can use a zigzag stitch to finish raw edges in lieu of a serger or mock-overcast stitch. I used to do it all the time before I got a serger, just run my seam allowances under the machine with a zigzag stitch and manually trim off the excess with a small pair of scissors.

If you topstitch, you could just do it as a flat-felled seam and that really would finish the edges. Trim one seam allowance down to 1/4" or less, fold the other seam allowance around it to encase it, and then topstitch through everything about 1/4" away from the seam. All raw edges are enclosed so they won't unravel.

No problem, I like talking shop =)

[amethyst73.livejournal.com]

Having done one of these earlier today (and having it come out messy-looking but functional on the inside), I suspect it will be much easier to do on a free-arm machine. Doing it on a flatbed is... challenging.

In manufactured clothing that has flat felled seams along the sleeve edge, the edge of the seamed material is always a nice smooth continuous curve along the armscye. In my case, it's got a number of little corners where the (curved) material isn't wanting to play nice with folding a fixed amount in for the length of the curve. I am clipping that material some to try to make it a little happier, but it's only helping some. I see that some people gather that part (http://handmadebycarolyn.blogspot.com/2012/01/flat-felling-curved-seam.html) to get away from the problem; do you have any special tricks?

[onyoukai.livejournal.com]

This is my process for flat-felling:

1) Cut one seam allowance down to less than 1/4".

2) Fold the other seam allowance* in half around the trimmed side, pressing the fold with a heated iron for control and neatness. Because the armscye is curved, I do this pressing over a ham on whatever side is appropriate for the fabric.

* I use 1/2" seam allowances, not 5/8" that commercial patterns use. If I'm starting with a commercial pattern, I almost always end up re-engineering it or changing it so that the seam allowance is reduced. The less seam allowance you have, the easier it is to get a neat look on curves and less fit interference.

3) Sometimes I pin the seam allowance down from the outside to avoid it pulling out of place, if the fabric is being onery like that.

4) Stick the garment on the machine** and topstitch 1/4" away from the seam from the outside. I use a 1/4" straight stitch foot for this purpose. I usually start and end somewhere in the armpit, so if the stitching looks a little heavy from the overlapping, at least it'll be in the least noticeable place.

** I use the free arm on my sewing machine. Sewing around closed loops like this would be extremely difficult on a flatbed at all, let alone get it clean.

With my 1/2" seam allowances, the width of one folded in half will be just over 1/4" because there is some thickness to fabric and the raw edge won't really get right up against the seam. So, when I do the 1/4" topstitching, the stitching ends up extremely close to the fold. I don't gather anything, and I don't really end up with those pointy corners from the fabric forcing itself back out, either.

[amethyst73.livejournal.com]

I did figure out the "press on the BRAND NEW HAM that you bought SPECIFICALLY FOR THIS SORT OF THING" for dealing with the hem on sleeve #2, and I also figured out the "start and end at the bottom of the armscye" part, but I hadn't figured out the "stitch from the top of the garment" part. As a result, the hem looks really pretty nice on the *inside* of the garment, but is just oogly enough on the *outside* that I'm thinking of taking it out and redoing it.

God I love the ham.

Also (barring redo of felled seam on sleeve #2), My Very First Shirt (tm) is done! Pictures tomorrow when I can get them in sunlight. :D

Also, I now _have_ a machine that has both a free arm and zigzagging, but (1) I was pretty darn close to done with the project, and (2) I'm not yet familiar with New Machine. You can see photos of Old/Current Machine in this post (http://amethyst73.livejournal.com/213526.html) - it's a kind of amazing workhorse of a Singer from circa 1951, hence the flatbed-only and no zigzag. New Machine is on loan from a friend, and was bought at Wal-Mart "at least two decades ago," as she says... but that's still ~40 years more recent than Old Machine.

[onyoukai.livejournal.com]

Oooh, yeah, you're supposed to do all topstitching from the outside of the garment (that's why it's called "top"-stitching), at whatever distance is required to catch the seam allowances underneath and/or meet your aesthetic purposes. You just finesse it so that the seam allowances don't shift or fold away as you feed the garment through the machine. The underside is rarely as nice-looking as the top.

Awesome, definitely post pics. (Guh, wish I had something to post, I need to be creative)

Oh god, that was my first sewing machine. It was all black and didn't have the gold decor on it, but it was that same kind of flatbed, straight-stitch electrical Singer Featherweight. I hated that thing so much for so many reasons ._. Highly recommend learning the new machine when you get a chance, I can't even emphasize how much more I enjoyed the hobby when I moved up to more modern machines. I had the electric Featherweight, then a Montgomery-Ward that was 10-20 years newer (but still very retro), and then finally got a Singer Scholastic (a fully modern mechanical model meant for college classrooms). It sucks that Singer discontinued the Scholastic series, because they were solid machines.

[amethyst73.livejournal.com]

I'll let you know exactly what the New Machine is once I've gotten it out of its box; the manual doesn't say, weirdly.

It's entirely possible that I'll end up investing in a yet newer machine at some point in the future, and I'll want your advice on one when the time comes. From the reviews I've read on Amazon, it sounds like Singer's intro-level (Tradition) line breaks a lot/regularly has bobbin issues; I'll want something that's dependable. The Talent line sounds like it's some better. I don't need anything really fancy, at least not just yet. (Though given how pretty I think embroidered work is, who knows how far up I may go?)

Before investing in a new (and possibly expensive) machine, I want to establish that this is going to be a continuing hobby, not just something that catches my fancy for six months. :)

[onyoukai.livejournal.com]

Sure, I can try my best to give feedback. I actually used to work for a very large sewing supplies retailer; I was the webmaster for their e-commerce site, so I had to learn a lot about different machines/brands/features/parts so I could handle product photos, research and write descriptions, connect relevant products to one another, etc. However, I quit working for them about 4 years ago, so my knowledge is a bit dated. I'm not all that up on most new machines that have come out since I left.

What I can say is that if you're going to invest in a better, modern machine, skip Singer and go with a different brand. Even one of the co-owners I used to work for told me, "Singer's a piece of crap". Janome and Brother models perform much better than Singer does at lower price points, and they use the same machine feet (and I think the same class 15 bobbin type) as Singer models.

[amethyst73.livejournal.com]

Saw some Elna machines today when I went in to see if I could get the new Singer presser foot lever replaced (see recent post). They look like nice little machines - Janome's the parent company.

And given how much I cursed at the Singer 5932 (looks basically like this (http://newvintagelady.com/toolsofthetrade/mysewingnook/singermachine.jpg) (not my photo or my machine)) while using it, I'm already thinking that I'm either going back to the 1951 machine, which Does Not Break (even though there are things It Will Not Do), or invest in a _real_ machine sooner rather than later. If the repair shop can get and install a replacement presser foot lever, I'll give the 5932 another try. If it continues to frustrate, new machine here I come!

[onyoukai.livejournal.com]

Yeah, I was told during my time at the sewing machine place that Elna machines are just retired Janome models that get rebranded as Elna. So yeah, you'll get Janome quality with Elna and those machines use the same presser feet and bobbins.

Most machines under Singer, Janome, Elna, Brother, and Baby Lock all use the exact same low shank / snap-on feet. So, you could actually reuse the feet from that old electric Featherweight on most machines under those brands. The 5932, however, appears to be a slant shank machine, so the foot configuration is completely different.

[amethyst73.livejournal.com]

Thanks! The Elna seems to be pretty well regarded, so if the Singer is killed by a lack of a piece of plastic that someone could probably just 3d-print if they wanted to, I'll probably just jump and buy it.

I'm pleased by the thought of being able to use the shank feet from the Featherweight, though I haven't used most of them. (I scanned the parts of the manual that cover how to use the feet, though, in case I do.)

The 5932, weirdly, looks like it was supposed to come with a selection of feet, but none of them are with the machine at this point. The only foot I'd be really interested in is the buttonhole foot, which I can get from any of several places for about $7 plus shipping, but I'll decide later whether it's worth doing even that - the bobbin choke was not a promising sign for being able to do buttonholes!

Totally different question: Your icon looks very familiar! I'm pretty sure I've even seen that particular bit with the enlarged eye. Who is that guy, and what's he from?

[onyoukai.livejournal.com]

The guy in my icon is Luke Atmey, the detective with the long nose in the 3rd Phoenix Wright game. XD (I put him against one of the backgrounds from the first game though, because it contrasted better against his black jacket.)

[taeriel.livejournal.com]

This is a prime example of why I've always found sewing sleeves to be such a painful process. I have run into much the same problem and always assumed it was either a lack of skill on my part or the I herent evilness of sleeves. Very interesting to learn that it is a common pattern inaccuracy!